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War of words over snub to Unitarians

10:07pm Wednesday 16th January 2008

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A WAR of words has broken out after three leading Christian churches snubbed an event to bring women together in prayer.

The Church of England, Baptist and Methodist churches in Padiham rejected the invitation of the town's Unitarians for the Women's World Day of Prayer service.

Clergy said they had taken the decision because Unitarians did not believe in the Holy Trinity, that is the father, the son and the holy spirit.

But the Unitarian Church said that the decision was "pathetic" and an "insult".

Churches in Padiham take it in turns to host the service which is meant to be a global event of Christian unity on the first Friday in March each year.

This year's event is due to be at the Padiham Nazareth Unitarian Chapel, Church Street.

But it will only be attended by representatives from the Catholic faith because of the snub.

Life President of the Unitarian church Joyce Thompson said: "We have had problems with Pendle Street Baptist Church and St. Leonard's for about six years now. They do not invite us to their services.

"And they won't accept that we should have anything to do with it just because we are Unitarian. We invited them and they have just snubbed us.

"It's pathetic. It shouldn't matter what religion you are from. In today's age we should all be trying to join together. It is an insult to our church.

"I really don't know what is going through their minds."

Unitarians believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. But they maintain that Jesus was a prophet of God, but not God himself.

Women's World Day of Prayer's 2008 theme is 'God's Wisdom Provides New Understanding' and women from across the world will focus on this topic for their prayers.

But Rev Mark Jones, of St. Leonard's Church Padiham said they had rejected the offer as Unitarian's "deny virtually every one of crucial Christian doctrines".

He said: "I'm not quite sure how Padiham Nazareth Unitarian Chapel managed to hold the first 'Womens World Day Prayer', but the idea of the day is Trinitarian.

"We do not think that it is right for them to hold the service if they do not believe in the Trinitarianism.

"I respect that they have their own views but they shouldn't expect us to feel comfortable with them holding the service.

"The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity is another Trinitarian concept so I don't know why they should feel like they should be invited."

Rev John G Hartley, of the Pendle Street Baptist Church, Padiham, revealed why they had rejected the offer.

He said: "They do not agree with the basic foundations the 'Women's World Day Prayer' is set upon: the belief in the father, the son and the holy spirit.

"We are not on our own here. The Church of England won't be attending.

"The reason we won't be attending is the prayer is formed by the Trinitarian churches on a belief the Unitarian do not believe in, full stop.

"It comes down to what we believe in and this is the core foundation of our faith-it would be wrong to attend.

"In the past we have invited them to attend but not take part. They can attend and sit in the church but they can't take part in the service."

No one was available for comment from St. John's R.C Church, St. John's Road, Padiham.

Howard Hague, spokesman for the General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Churches, said that the movement often participated in Women's World Day of Prayer.

But he added: "It is not uncommon for Unitarians and ministers to be excluded from local church councils but it does vary from area to area. In some places Unitarian ministers are made welcome and in others they are basically told to go away.

"Most ministers would want to get involved and are invited to take part in activities but we do come across situations like this from time to time. Unitarians are not full members of some church bodies because they are not Trinitarians, so they are excluded in that way."


Your Say YourBurnley and Pendle Citizen

andy, spain says...
10:22pm Wed 16 Jan 08

Another reason not to be a Christian typical infighting and no respect for others beliefs.

Ian the Beancounter, Darwen says...
10:58pm Wed 16 Jan 08

Seems a lot of fuss about an abstract superstition - religion, I mean. Just proves yet again that the poor, misguided people who believe in a myth will cause trouble to try and justify their insecurity in themselves.

Dave, Darwen says...
8:15am Thu 17 Jan 08

A few hundred years ago, the other Churches would have burned the Unitarians alive for what they believe.

I guess just snubbing them is a form of progress.

padihamresident, says...
9:50am Thu 17 Jan 08

Typical that it is men who are arguing over a day of prayer that is meant to be for women. The Catholics will attend because they are not scared of the unitarians. The other churches are just pathetic in their ignorance and bigotry

Carol, Burnley says...
10:26am Thu 17 Jan 08

"we all believe in one God"
That should be the fundamental underpinning prinicple not unitarianism v trinitarianism Build your bridges and learn to work together. How will peace in this world ever be achieved otherwise?

John R, Essex says...
10:40am Thu 17 Jan 08

The problem is, as your article points out, the Women's World Day of Prayer is a Christian event, but Unitarians don't believe in the same Christ as do mainstream churches, and this makes a real difference to prayer. As a Christian, I will pray to Christ. A Unitarian won't. That makes sharing in praying difficult, and I hope your readers will understand that, even though this may seem a trivial quarrel.

andy, spain says...
10:46am Thu 17 Jan 08

Thankfully Im Pagan and wonder when the Chrissys are going to start realising all their festivals Christmas, Easter etc are all on about death rebirth of Mother instead of a mythical human being.

steve, accrington says...
10:49am Thu 17 Jan 08

Religion should be banned, every last bit of it.All this trouble through the world with a load of idiots saying "my god is better than yours". I stopped believing when I was about 12.It`s all a loud of bunkum,laid down by men to keep us all in check.

Simon, Dagenham says...
5:43pm Thu 17 Jan 08

'religion should be banned..all this trouble through the world with a load of idiots saying 'my god is better than yours..'

Nevertheless, atheistic regimes like those under Stalin/Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Kim Il Sung are not exactly a pretty picture of trouble free peace, harmony, tolerance, plenty and freedom.

Maybe the real problem lies in the hearts and minds of humankind, irrespective of their 'religion' or lack of it.
Mmmmmmm; sounds strangely like something Jesus said.

Peter, says...
6:26pm Thu 17 Jan 08

What's at the heart of the Christian message? Being nice? Believing in some vague 'life-force'?

No, at the heart of Christian teaching is Christ himself - 100% God, 100% man - crucified, risen & ascended and will return.

Unitarianism is a very serious distortion of this teaching, so it's great news for Burnley that their churches are making a stand for REAL Christianity !

the Rev. Louise L Ulrich, Edinburgh says...
7:05pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Most Unitarians would willingly pray with people of other faith traditions whenever they were working toward a hate-free and life-affirming world. Cannot others pray side-by-side with us?

Neville, Tottington says...
7:52pm Thu 17 Jan 08

Unitarianism is one of the few faith communities that welcomes people of all faiths and none. Humanists,Pagans, Agnostics and even Atheists join together with traditional Unitarian Christians in seeking their own individual truths.Unitarianism is dynamic - ever changing to adapt to an ever changing world.

gordon, Burnley says...
7:59pm Thu 17 Jan 08

The LET are at it again-causing unnecessary trouble. Why did they choose to speak only to male ministers who opposed the day of prayer when the Methodist minister in Padiham is a woman who I'm sure would also give a very valid and concise reason why the Methodist Church are not supporting it. For those above who talk about Christian in fighting I think your wrong. The Christians are standing up for their beliefs and not those of a non-christian church, the Unitarians. This is not a new issue in Padiham as I cannot see how the Unitarians can take part in the Walk of Witness which is a celebration of Pentecost in Padiham when they don't believe n what it celebrates.

Ri chard, Merseyside says...
7:34am Fri 18 Jan 08

Don't tar all people who have spiritual feelings with the same brush. Not all religious organisations are fundamentalist! The name Unitarian is historical and misleading - today the "Unitarians and Free Christians" are an inclusive body accepting people of all beliefs or none - they don't tie people in to accepting a particular creed. It's as unfundamentalist as any body can be! Unitarians accept people will have many ways of trying to understand the spiritual dimension of this world. The concept of the trinity (a committee interpretation going back to Roman times, just one way of trying to understand the un-understandable)is one way, but there are many other ways, none of them perfect! The danger is in fundamentalist approaches based on the (inevitably less than perfect) understandings of people in the distant past. Blind faith is exactly that and an excuse for avoiding reasoned thought, looking for simple answers to that which is not simple. Fortunately many good people in the C of E and non-conformist churches are Unitarian in their approach to religion but just don't know it!

Brian Anderson, Portsmouth says...
9:43am Fri 18 Jan 08

Yes, this is so very sad, but then it doesn't happen in many many other areas of the UK or the wider world where the co-opeation between Unitarian churches and the congregations of most denominations is really heart-warming. At Unitarian College, Manchester, and the Baptists seem to coexist in the same plant and share lecturers very happily. As far as I know, God has never decreed against Unitarians and I am certain that Jesus wouldn't and doesn't. As a North Country saying goes, "There's nowt so strange as folk" - well especially amongst fundamentalists who know they're always right Bigots unite OK! I'm sure that Jesus had something to say about this kind of attitude. Faith is not about certainties but also includes healthy doubts. Well that is what the greatest of the saints throughout history thought - and even Jesus himself had his doubts.

Retired Minister (Unitarian), South Coast says...
11:14am Fri 18 Jan 08

I disagree with Brian Anderson - it is not sad. This sort of behaviour marks the demise of religion itself and the sooner we take away this force which seems after my experienmce of 40 years in ministry to bring more problems to the world than it solves. Think about Bush and Blair - devout religionists - had they brought the teachings of Jesus to the fore - like love thy neighbour as thyself - maybe there could have been peace in the world more swiftly. Instead we have more war and conflicts from the edge of the Mediterranean to beyond the Indian Ocean.
Peace will only come when we accept each other for what we are and not to love Jesus but each other.

Alan, padiham says...
4:54pm Fri 18 Jan 08

Revs Hartley and Jones are to be praised for daring to go against the flow and stand up for their beliefs in a world which values values harmony at the expense of truth.

Lynda, bury says...
5:45pm Fri 18 Jan 08

gordon wrote:
The LET are at it again-causing unnecessary trouble. Why did they choose to speak only to male ministers who opposed the day of prayer when the Methodist minister in Padiham is a woman who I'm sure would also give a very valid and concise reason why the Methodist Church are not supporting it. For those above who talk about Christian in fighting I think your wrong. The Christians are standing up for their beliefs and not those of a non-christian church, the Unitarians. This is not a new issue in Padiham as I cannot see how the Unitarians can take part in the Walk of Witness which is a celebration of Pentecost in Padiham when they don't believe n what it celebrates.
Padiham Unitarians take part in the walk of witness, which happens to be held on Trinity Sunday. The walk of witness used to be held at whitsun.
Unitarians have been in PAdiham for 200 years now .They are an established part of the community. THe walk of witness is a lovely event and as a Unitarian I am proud to participate in such a communuity event.

gordon, Burnley says...
7:23pm Fri 18 Jan 08

Sorry Lynda, but you take part in a Walk on Trinity Sunday? I thought Unitarians didn't accept the Trinity! You really do need to make your mind up about where you stand on this. It's the Unitarians refusal to accept the Trinity that has brought about the current situation in the report.

Robin Edgar, Montreal, Quebec, Canada says...
12:26am Wed 23 Jan 08

My name is Robin Edgar and I am an "excommunicated" Unitarian from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Is it really "pathetic" and an "insult" for Trinitarian Christians to politely decline an invitation to participate in Women's World Day of Prayer from definitely non-Trinitarian, and possibly even outright non-theist, Unitarians? It is my understanding that Women's World Day of Prayer is a specifically Trinitarian Christian ecumenical movement that began over a century ago. Have Unitarians ever at any time participated in Women's World Day of Prayer in the past? I do not quite understand how or why non-Trinitarian Christians took it upon themselves to invite Trinitarian Christians to a religious observance that has traditionally been a Trinitarian Christian event.

I can't help but wonder if this was not a knowing and willful attempt by misguided Unitarians to create some controversy and thus reap some sympathy and free publicity for their movement. It seems to me that, if they really wanted to participate in Women's World Day of Prayer, it would have been more appropriate for these Unitarians to request the possibility of doing so from Women's World Day of Prayer organizers rather than unilaterally deciding that they would hold a WWDP observance themselves and invite Christians to participate.

It looks like this controversy is part of an ongoing feud. "Life President" of the Unitarian church Joyce Thompson said: "We have had problems with Pendle Street Baptist Church and St. Leonard's for about six years now. They do not invite us to their services. And they won't accept that we should have anything to do with it just because we are Unitarian. We invited them and they have just snubbed us."

No kidding "Life President" Thompson. Did you really expect these two Trinitarian Christian churches to accept your invitation to a Unitarian appropriation and usurption of a traditionally Trinitarian Christian religious observance? What truly is "pathetic" is this misguided Unitarian attempt to create and benefit from some manufactured religious controversy. People might want to give some thought as to what is really going through Unitarian minds in this conflict. . .

And just what is with this "Life President" title for Joyce Thompson? Unitarians pretend to be a democratic "church" but with titles like "Life President" they look about as "democratic" as Fidel Castro's Cuba or Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe. . . God knows that I have had my own difficulties with "Stalinistic" Unitarians who have been described as "the Church of the Far-Left" in US newspapers.

Robin Edgar, Montreal, Quebec, Canada says...
5:08am Thu 24 Jan 08

My name is Robin Edgar and I am an "excommunicated" Unitarian from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Is it really "pathetic" and an "insult" for Trinitarian Christians to politely decline an invitation to participate in Women's World Day of Prayer from definitely non-Trinitarian, and possibly even outright non-theist, Unitarians? It is my understanding that Women's World Day of Prayer is a specifically Trinitarian Christian ecumenical movement that began over a century ago. Have Unitarians ever at any time participated in Women's World Day of Prayer in the past? I do not quite understand how or why non-Trinitarian Christians took it upon themselves to invite Trinitarian Christians to a religious observance that has traditionally been a Trinitarian Christian event.

I can't help but wonder if this was not a knowing and willful attempt by misguided Unitarians to create some controversy and thus reap some sympathy and free publicity for their movement. It seems to me that, if they really wanted to participate in Women's World Day of Prayer, it would have been more appropriate for these Unitarians to request the possibility of doing so from Women's World Day of Prayer organizers rather than unilaterally deciding that they would hold a WWDP observance themselves and invite Christians to participate.

It looks like this controversy is part of an ongoing feud. "Life President" of the Unitarian church Joyce Thompson said: "We have had problems with Pendle Street Baptist Church and St. Leonard's for about six years now. They do not invite us to their services. And they won't accept that we should have anything to do with it just because we are Unitarian. We invited them and they have just snubbed us."

No kidding "Life President" Thompson. Did you really expect these two Trinitarian Christian churches to accept your invitation to a Unitarian appropriation and usurption of a traditionally Trinitarian Christian religious observance? What truly is "pathetic" is this misguided Unitarian attempt to create and benefit from some manufactured religious controversy. People might want to give some thought as to what is really going through Unitarian minds in this conflict. . .

And just what is with this "Life President" title for Joyce Thompson? Unitarians pretend to be a democratic "church" but with titles like "Life President" they look about as "democratic" as Fidel Castro's Cuba or Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe. . . God knows that I have had my own difficulties with "Stalinistic" Unitarians who have been described as "the Church of the Far-Left" in US newspapers.

Robin Edgar, Montreal, Quebec, Canada says...
5:14am Thu 24 Jan 08

Sorry about the double post. I was trying to submit the post to another comment page but it ended up here too. My recent commentary on the follow-up article might well be pertinent here so I am posting some of it below -

Padiham Unitarians (to say nothing of Unitarians more generally) seem to be displaying a "holier than thou" attitude here. As I said in my comment on the original article about this controversy, this conflict is looks a lot like a Unitarian attempt to appropriate and usurp a religious observance that was founded by and traditionally celebrated by Trinitarian Christians, to say nothing of women. . . Quite frankly it is ridiculous for Rev. Jean McNeile to say, "all are welcome, regardless of gender, sexuality, religion and culture" when this religious observance is clearly intended to be a *women's* day of prayer and a Christian one. This seems to be a fine example of Unitarians saying,

"Oh look at us. Look how wonderfully tolerant and liberal and welcoming we Unitarians are."

When in fact they seem to be going out of their way to make Christian churches look intolerant and unwelcoming. If Unitarians want to have a day of prayer where "all are welcome, regardless of gender, sexuality, religion and culture" why don't they just start their own rather than try to appropriate and usurp the Women's World Day of Prayer service?

Robin Edgar, Montreal, Quebec, Canada says...
5:46am Thu 24 Jan 08

Well look what an appropriate Google search turned up -

http://archive.prest
oncitizen.co.uk/2003
/3/1/564076.html

Some old news. . .

Indeed it does look like Padiham Unitarians have been trying to appropriate 'Women's World Day Prayer' to serve their own purposes and agenda for some time now -

Life President of the Unitarian church Connie Thompson said: "We are all very upset at what has happened as we started up this scheme many years ago and have been involved every year.

"It just doesn't seem fair that we are not being invited as we feel it should really be open to all faiths and, for that matter, to non-faiths to take part. It is a real shame."

It seems to me that the real shame is that Unitarians are apparently trying to hijack a day of religious observance that was founded by, and traditionally intended for, Christian women. Not only do these Unitarians want to turn it into an inter-faith event but they even want to transform it into a "non-faith" event. As if that was not enough, Rev. Jean McNeile's recently quoted words make it abundantly clear that Unitarians even want to tranform this day of prayer that is clearly intended to be for *women* into one that anyone can participate in "regardless of gender". I can well understand how Christians, Christian women and otherwise, might not appreciate Unitarians appropriating their day of prayer and transmogrifying it into something that is clearly something quite a bit different than a 'Women's World Day Prayer'. If Unitarians want a 'Men's and Women's Regardless of Sexual Orientation World Day Of We're Really Not Quite Sure What We're Actually Doing Here Today' surely they should start from scratch and propose it themselves rather than trying to hijack a Day of Prayer that is clearly intended to be observed by Christian women.

Women's World Day of Prayer, says...
11:24am Mon 11 Feb 08

The WWDP is a Christian Prayer Movement that organises a Day of Prayer each year on the first Friday in March, to which all are invited. However, leadership roles within the movement in this country are restricted to those ecclesial communities who profess a Trinitarian belief and this is in accordance with the policy of Churches Together in England of whom we are a Body in Association. We acknowledge the distress this causes to many people but feel we must uphold this very basic tenet of the Christian faith.

Robin Edgar, Montreal, Quebec, Canada says...
12:59am Thu 14 Feb 08

Well, if the above statement is indeed an official announcement from the legitimate organizers of Women's World Day of Prayer, as would appear to be the case, it validates what I have said in my comments here. I guess the question now is how it was possible for Padiham Unitarians to take a leadership role in WWDC observances in the first place. It does seem that this controversy goes back several years if not a few decades.

Comments are closed on this article.

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